30 Nov. 45

Afternoon Session

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Colonel Amen.

[Witness Lahousen resumed the stand]

COL. AMEN: Prior to the luncheon recess you were testifying about a conference in 1941 with Reinecke and others. Prior to that conference did Canaris tell you what kind of appeal to make to those present at the meeting?

LAHOUSEN: Before the discussion Canaris said, as I have already pointed out, that I should use factual arguments in order to have this order withdrawn or at least to weaken its effects, but that otherwise I should not take it into my head to use arguments of a humanitarian nature lest I make a fool of myself.

COL. AMEN: And now will you explain to the Tribunal, to the best of your recollection, exactly what happened and what was said in the course of that conference? LAHOUSEN: The discussion was opened by General Reinecke, and he explained these orders in the manner in which I described them before the recess. He said that these measures were necessary and that it was essential that this idea should also be made clear to the Wehrmacht, and particularly to the officers' corps, since they apparently were still entertaining ideas which belonged to the Ice Age and not to the present age of National Socialism.

COL. AMEN: What views did you present at this conference?

LAHOUSEN: According to instructions I held the view of the Amt Ausland Abwehr--that is of Canaris--and in the main I pointed out, first of all, the most unfavorable effect of such measures on the troops, namely on the front troops, that they would never understand such orders, particularly not the simple soldier. Besides, we had reports that the executions were sometimes carried out before their eyes.

Secondly, I brought forward the objections of my office in regard to activities of the office itself, the unfavorable effect of these measures on the enemy, that is, the virtual hindering of Russians, who were surrendering to the last man without resistance, from deserting; and furthermore, the great difficulties which beset the Abwehr Division in acquiring agents, that is, people who, for various reasons, had voluntarily declared themselves ready to help the Germans.

COL. AMEN: In order that this may be clear on the record, because I think there was quite a bit of confusion in the translation, I want to point out one or two of those arguments again. What did