30 Nov. 45

SD, could be identified as thoroughly bolshevized or as active representatives of the Bolshevist ideology.

COL. AMEN: Did you also learn from the conversation what the basis for these orders was?

LAHOUSEN: The basis for these orders was explained by General Reinecke in its outlines as follows:

The war between Germany and Russia is not a war between two states or two armies, but between two ideologies--namely, the National Socialist and the Bolshevist ideology. The Red Army soldier must not be looked upon as a soldier in the sense of the word applying to our western opponents, but as an ideological enemy. He must be regarded as the archenemy of National Socialism, and must be treated accordingly.

COL. AMEN: Did Canaris tell you why he was selecting you to go to this conference?

LAHOUSEN: Canaris gave me two or perhaps three reasons and motives for ordering me to this conference although he himself was in Berlin. Firstly, he wanted to avoid a meeting with Reinecke, for whom, as the prototype of the ever-compliant National Socialist general, he possessed strong personal dislike. Secondly, he told and directed me to attempt through factual argument--that is, through appeals to reason--to have this brutal and completely senseless order rescinded or at least mitigated in its effects as far as possible. He also selected me for tactical reasons since he, as department chief, could by no means be as outspoken as I, who, thanks to my subordinate position, could use much stronger language. Thirdly, he was well acquainted with my personal attitude, especially in this question, an attitude which I manifested wherever possible during my many journeys and trips to the front where I witnessed ill-treatment of prisoners of war. This is also clearly recorded in my notes.

COL. AMEN: Did Canaris and the other members of your group have a particular name for Reinecke?

LAHOUSEN: Not only among our group but also in other circles, he was known as the "little Keitel" or the "other Keitel".

COL. AMEN: Prior to your going to this conference, did Canaris make any other comment on these orders?

LAHOUSEN: Even at the time when these orders were issued, Canaris expressed strong opposition to them in our circles--when I say our circles, I mean mainly the divisional chiefs--and had a protest made through the Ausland Division, that is, through Bürckner. I no longer remember whether it was made in writing or whether Bürckner made it orally to Keitel directly; I think it