28 Nov. 45

"In early 1935 the Austrian Foreign Minister, Berger-Waldenegg, informed me that in the course of a conversation with Von Papen, the latter had remarked, 'Yes, you have your French and English friends now, and you can have your independence a little longer.' The Foreign Minister, of course, told me this remark in German, but the foregoing is an accurate translation. The Foreign Minister told me that he had replied to Von Papen, 'I am glad to have from your own lips your own opinion which agrees with what your Chief has just said in the Saar and which you have taken such pains to deny.' Von Papen appeared to be terribly upset when he realized just what he had said and tried to cover his statements, but according to Berger-Waldenegg, kept constantly getting into deeper water.

"Von Papen undoubtedly achieved some success, particularly with men like Glaise-Horstenau and others who had long favored the Grossdeutschtum idea, but who nevertheless had been greatly disturbed by the fate of the Catholic Church. Without conscience or scruple, Von Papen exploited his reputation and that of his wife as ardent and devout Catholics to overcome the fears of these Austrians in this respect."

May I inquire if the Court expect to take a short recess?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. We will adjourn now for 10 minutes

[A recess was taken.]

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal wishes to make it clear, if I did not make it clear when I spoke before, that if Defense Counsel wish to put interrogatories to Mr. Messersmith upon his affidavit they may submit such interrogatories to the Tribunal in writing for them to be sent to Mr. Messersmith to answer.

FLOTTENRICHTER OTTO KRANZBUHLER (Counsel for Defendant Dönitz): I do not know whether my question has yet been answered. or by what it has been made known by the President of the Court.

In the testimony of Mr. Messersmith, Dönitz' name was mentioned. It appears on Page 4 of the German version. I should like to read the whole paragraph:

"Admiral Karl Dönitz was not always in an amicable frame of mind. He was not a National Socialist when the National Socialists came to power"...

THE PRESIDENT: This passage was not read in evidence, was it?