26 Nov. 45

the motherland, is nine to one, and it should act as a warning to us that if we expand in space, we must not allow the level of our population to become too low."

I take it he meant by that: "Keep the population of occupied territories low in comparison with ours."

"France's position is more favorable than that of England. The French Empire is better placed geographically; the population of its colonial possessions represents a potential military increase. But France is faced with difficulties of internal politics. In the life of the nations, parliamentary governments ruled only 10 per cent of the time, approximately; whereas, totalitarian governments ruled 90 per cent of the time. Nevertheless, we have to take the following into our political consideration as power factors:

"Britain, France, Russia, and the adjoining smaller states. "The German question can be solved only by way of force, and this is never without risk. The battles of Frederick the Great for Silesia, and Bismarck's wars against Austria and France had been a tremendous risk and the speed of Prussian action in 1870 had prevented Austria from participating in the war. If we place the decision to apply force with risk at the head of the following expositions, then we are left to reply to the questions 'when' and 'how'. In this regard we have to decide upon three different cases."

I interpolate: The Tribunal will recall the specific allegation in the Indictment that at this meeting there emerged three different plans, any of which might be utilized.

"Case 1. Period 1943-45: After this we can only expect a change for the worse. The rearming of the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force, as well as the formation of the Officers' Corps, are practically concluded."

I remind the Tribunal that this meeting was on 5 November 1937, but he is contemplating the period 1943-45.

"Our material equipment and armaments are modern; with further delay the danger of their becoming out-of-date will increase. In particular, the secrecy of 'special weapons' cannot always be safeguarded. Enlistment of reserves would be limited to the current recruiting age groups and an addition from older untrained groups would be no longer available.

"In comparison with the rearmament, which will have been carried out at that time by other nations, we shall decrease in relative power. Should we not act until 1943-45, then, dependent on the absence of reserves, any year could bring